Division and Interest Group
Minutes of SSCA Division and Interest Group Business meetings
held at the 2005 annual conference in Baton Rouge, LA from March 29-April 3, 2005
Please note that minutes are added as they are sent to the Executive Director.
Thursday, March 31, 2005
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Trish Amason, Chair, called the meeting to order.
A motion was made for three officers to look over and accept minutes from the 2004 business meeting. Passed.
Amason reported on the Executive Council meeting, including 12 items that were discussed. 1) The Council noted that there is a problem getting a nominating committee together. 2) The question of electronic nominations being association wide was also discussed. 3) Vice President elect is Craig Owen Smith. 4) A significant increase in pre-registration was noted. It is up from 100 to 300. 5) There has also been a significant membership increase—from 524 to 579. The Applied Division is the fourth largest division, with membership increasing from 83 in 2004 to 89 in 2005. 6) The Executive Council asked that chairs tell members to visit with the exhibitors. If they do not do business, they may not come back. 7) There was a surplus in the budget noted. 8) A question was raised about whether to reinstate the newsletter. 9) Future conference locations are 2006-Dallas, 2007-Louisville, 2008-Savannah, 2009-Virginia Beach or Norfolk, and 2010-the possibility of a joint conference with the Central Association is being explored. 11) Publication issues were discussed. 12) EBSCO has an interest in SCJ being part of the communication package that they offer.
VICE CHAIR'S REPORT
John Mier reported that there were 17 paper submissions, of which 13 were programmed and 5 panels submitted, 3 of which were programmed. He also encouraged members to attend the top paper panel Friday morning at 10:30. Finally, he thanked reviewers for immediate turnaround on papers.
VICE CHAIR ELECT'S REPORT
Dave Gesler reported that he is working on the planning for 2006. He will request a list of division members through SSCA, including email addresses. Submission will be fully online. A suggestion was made to copy and paste the papers into a new document to remove any identifying information. Joy Hart is to instruct Dave in how to strip the papers rather than copying and pasting.
Joy Hart reported that editor-elect John Mier has been receiving submissions. She also noted that a discussion Friday with Taylor & Francis will help to shape the future of the journal.
Mier encouraged members to submit to the journal, noting that it is a generalist journal.
Update of web page discussed. Justin Davis volunteered to take on this responsibility. No status at this time. According to Joy, Emmett Wynn is planning to revamp the web page in July.
There was a question about whether to resurrect the practice of highlighting an outstanding scholar. Questions arose as to criteria for this recognition. Would the person be honored for service to the division, scholarship, or both? A suggestion was made to look at who has worked and presented. It was noted that we could revisit our roots and do a "family tree."
ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Vice Chair-Elect-Tom Socha, by acclamation
Amason passed the gavel to Mier and a motion to adjourn the meeting passed.
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Freedom of Speech Division
2005 Southern States Communication Association
Baton Rouge
Minutes of Business Meeting: April 2
Charles Tardy delivered the Program Planner's Packet for 2006.
Meeting called to order at 5:20 p.m.
Lindsley Armstrong Smith is not present; Smith was required to stay in Arkansas with the state legislature. Norma Cook fills in as chair.
All members introduce themselves. Present Include:
Pat Arneson, Duquesne University
Susan Mallon Ross, University of Southern Mississippi
Andy Long, University of Arkansas
Laura Schade, University of Arkansas
Terry Cole, Appalachian State University
Paul Gates, Appalachian State University
David R. Dewberry, University of Denver
Norma Cook, University of Tennessee-Knoxville
Vice-Chair's Report: There were two programs with two panels; Stephen Smith's panel was cancelled.
Presentation of Awards:
The Gregg Phiffer Top Paper Award was presented to Laura Schade, University of Arkansas, for her paper "An Analysis of Recurring Arguments Presented to Congress During Times of War"
The James Madison Prize was awarded to John Campbell, University of Memphis, for his book Darwinism, Design, and Public Education published in 2003 by Michigan State University Press. Stephen Meyer co-edited the book.
NCA's deadline for nominations for the Franklyn Haiman Award has been extended.
Communication Law Review
There have been 10 total submitted manuscripts. One has been accepted; two are currently in review; there are three in need of review.
Terry Cole inquired about a link from the journal site to the division's site. The journal's website may provide information regarding the division as well as a home for the journal.
Nomination for Planner for 2007: Susan Mallon Ross, University of Southern Mississippi
Nominating Committee representative for the division: David R. Dewberry, University of Denver, will serve until 2006.
Suggestions for Next Year's call for papers:
State Theme
Graduate Student Panel
Supreme Court Roundup (are there enough cases?)
Anniversary Cases
Theme with Conference: Family Values: Censorship in the name of family values
Patriot Act
Student Bill of Rights
FBI and Library
Internet (pro-anorexic websites & www.godhatesfags.com)
Hate Speech
Indirect effects of censorship
Academic Freedom
Terrorist Speech
Meeting Closes at 5:45 p.m.
IMMEDIATE PAST-CHAIR: Lindsley Armstrong Smith, University of Arkansas
CHAIR: Norma C. Cook, University of Tennessee-Knoxville
VICE CHAIR/PROGRAM PLANNER: Susan Mallon Ross, University of Southern Mississippi
VICE CHAIR ELECT: TBA
SECRETARY: David R. Dewberry, University of Denver
NOMINATING COMMITTEE: David R. Dewberry, University of Denver
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Sandra Halvorson – Florida State University, Panama City
The meeting was called to order at 4:05 pm on March 31, 2005.
over the meeting.
Discussion:
Sally Bell reported that the division had a lower than usual paper submission rate for the 2005 convention. A total of seven slots were allocated to the Gender Division. However, only the following were actually in the program for the Baton Rouge conference --- two division panels, one discussion panel, one spotlight and one business meeting.
Sally reported that the dates of the upcoming conferences had been determined –
Roseann Mandzick nominated Mindy Chang to be the new Vice Chair Elect. Sandra Halvorson seconded the nomination. All attendees were in favor of the nomination.
2006 Officer:
Chair, Ann Rosenthal
Vice-Chair, Sandra Halvorson (2006 program planner)
Vice-Chair Elect, Mindy Chang
Sally Bell will be the Nominating representative for the Gender Communication division.
The meeting was adjourned at 4:55pm.
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Interpersonal Division Meeting Agenda
Saturday 4/2/05
24 people present.
II. Old Business
Moved for approval by Jerry Hale, seconded by Jim Roiger, and passed unanimously
Chair: Patricia Rockwell reports on the Executive Council meeting. Upcoming convention sites are: 2006 Dallas, 2007 Louisville, 2008 Savannah, 2009 Virginia Beach, 2010 still to be determined, but a joint meeting with Central has been rejected.
Membership numbers: we are the third largest division with 98 members, Comm. Theory #2, Rhetoric #1.
III. New Business
A. Elections
Vice-Chair Elect:
Melissa Young is nominated by the nominating committee and is elected unanimously.
Patricia Amason is nominated by nominating committee. Amber Walker nominated by Patricia Amason.
Patricia Amason withdraws her nomination.
Amber Walker elected unanimously. (This is a two-year term).
Nominating Committee:
Monette Callaway-Ezell is nominated by the nominating committee and is elected unanimously. (This is a two-year term).
Jim Roiger provided the group with the new website information. The old system finally died, and this is the updated address. Archive section will list award winners. Please submit information to him if anyone has been missed. This website meets section 508 ADA requirements.
Bill Edwards moves for adjournment at 5:35 pm. Acclamation ends the meeting.
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Kenneth Burke Interest Group
Minutes of the SSCA Kenneth Burke Society
March 31, 2005, Baton Rouge Holiday Inn Select
Submitted by Christi Moss
Officers:
Chair: Elena Strauman
Vice-Chair Elect: Kim Golombisky
Secretary: Christi Moss
Meeting: Meeting was charmingly called to order at 4:00 PM by Vice-Chair elect Kim Golombisky in place of Chair Elena Strauman who could not attend and was sorely missed. Members Present: Mary Evelyn Collins, Kim Golombisky, Wesley Buerkle, Zack Gershberg, Christi Moss,
Minutes from last year were approved.
Chair and Vice-Chair elect report:
The 2006 conference will be held in Dallas.
The Burke Society sponsored three panels this year.
The call for the Baton Rouge conference was passed out to members.
Kim asked that we "beat the bushes" for panel participants in Dallas. Several ideas for panels were discussed including:
Media debates on life and death issues
Scapegoats on Iraq
A panel on Bush rhetoric
Burke and Texas Identification
A Bernard Brock Spotlight
Discussion was opened for call posting ideas. Several ideas came forth such as:
Posting the call on CRT-NET
Announcing in conjunction with the Tri-Annual Burke Conference which is this year.
Announcing at the meeting at NCA in November
Mary Evelyn volunteered to announce at NCA.
A plaque for the top papers was presented to Zack Gershberg for the student paper and Rebecca Watts for the top faculty paper.
New Business:
There was some discussion on providing money for top paper winners to attend the luncheon since only divisions get luncheon tickets.
Mary Evelyn Collins suggested thinking about starting a Kenneth Burke fund that could be used to provide interest that would pay for tickets. The suggestion was put forth to ask other Burke scholars across the nation for donations.
A suggestion for wine and cheese at next year's business meeting was made. Kim thought this a good idea.
Election: There was no need for an election this year but members were admonished to consider nominations for next year.
Meeting was adjourned until we reconvene in Dallas, 2006.
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MCD Business Meeting, Saturday, 4/2/05
Chair: Dennis Robertson, Texas at Tyler
Vice Chair: Teresa Taylor, Tougaloo College
Secretary: Tony DeMars, Sam Houston State University
Web Editor: Tony DeMars, Sam Houston State University
MCD Business Meeting, Saturday, 4/2/05
approved. In officers' reports, DeMars noted the posting of information on the MCD web site and discussed planning issues for SSCA 2006 in Dallas.
Feedback was requested for ideas such as a social event and tour of such places as ABC Radio, PriMedia Workplace Learning, broadcast facilities or
production houses. Robertson asked for comments. Albarran offered comments and suggestions of locations and offered a trip to the RTVF
Department at the University of North Texas. Hajjar noted that Texas would be a good place to reach out to high school teachers because of a
college credit program. David Goff recommended continuing the production showcase but to also the need to get people to talk about creative
competition. Albarran mentioned the MCD should attempt to make arrangements for getting involvement from the Texas Association of
Broadcast Educators.
Taylor reported that the MCD received six competitive papers and six panel proposals, with three entries for the production showcase. Taylor also
noted that the MCD got a limited number of slots in the SSCA program and that she fought to keep the production showcase, but would have had to
give up two other slots in order to do so. She noted that the Tampa production showcase, occurring over two session times, but really only
‘half a session' based on participation, may have hurt this year's production showcase. She also noted that the timing for paper submissions
coinciding with hurricane damage may have hurt the paper submission totals. Swain made a comment about a need for generating more
submissions. Robertson noted the Dallas location in 2006 should allow the MCD to encourage more student submissions.
Robertson then noted that upcoming SSCA sites will be Louisville in 2007, Savannah in 2008, and Virginia Beach in 2009. SSCA had voted not to do a joint conference with Central States in 2010, and so the 2010 will be in Memphis or New Orleans. Robertson also noted that all SSCA divisions went through a slump...MCD had dropped to 62 members but now back up to 83, the 5th largest SSCA division. Robertson also noted from the SSCA general business meeting that the membership had (1) voted in favor of allowing Taylor & Francis to publish the Southern Communication Journal, (2) had agreed to have SSCA included with Ebsco Host, and (3) voted to put $2500 back into the budget to allow a mailed-out newsletter again.
comments about issues related to the low number of submissions.
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Performance Studies Division Meeting
Southern States Communication Association
Annual Meeting: March 30-April 3, 2005, Baton Rouge, LA
The meeting was opened by Performance Studies Division Chair Marcy Chvasta. Members in attendance were :
Marcy Chvasta, Wendy Armington, Donna Nudd, Tracy Stephenson, Mindy Fenske, Michael Levan, Jay Baglia
Jay Baglia (current VC-Elect) took the minutes.
I. Old Business
A. Marcy Chvasta distributes minutes from last year's meeting (Tampa).
Mindy Fenske moves to approve the minutes, Jay Baglia seconds; unanimously approved.
II. New Business
A. Marcy distributes list for phone numbers and contact information.
B. Executive Committee Meeting Report (Marcy Chvasta)
1. Southern Communication Journal is going digital with Routledge Taylor-Francis (along with other regionals). The journal will now be cross-listed in databases, there will be online access, and revenue from sales, ads, etc.
2. There was a question raised at the meeting of whether Southern was going to join EBSCO or CMMC
3. There was a question raised at the meeting of whether Southern would pursue a joint conference with Central States in 2010 and the executive committee voted "no" – the argument was that Southern is a smaller "family" with a focus on hospitality. St. Louis and Lexington were "not successes."
a. Mindy Fenske asked if this was open to further consideration; Tracy Stephenson pointed out that there was a lot of performance in the two divisions.
4. Newsletter: it would cost $2500 to continue to produce a hard copy – the cost was approved.
5. Performance Studies division membership has declined from a high of 85 (New Orleans 2000) to 66 > 58 > 40 > 45 > 50 (this year).
6. Membership in Southern is "up" overall: 579 (this year) > 524 (Tampa 2004) > 457 (2003). The cost of conference was listed as a reason for modest attendance, along with the fact that it comes late in the budgetary year.
C. Dallas 2006
1. Jay Baglia is planning the meeting in Dallas and will post a call to "perforum" in late April 2005.
2. How do we get students involved? How do we get attendees to business meeting?
a. Donna Nudd suggests that we get more performance studies folks nominated for a variety of awards. Performance studies should capture posts for awards and post them on perforum.
b. Competitive papers do have money – graduate instructors should encourage students to submit final papers/performances to SSCA.
c. Can we get names of our division members?
d. Attendance has been good at this year's PS division panels.
e. It was suggested that we offer "25" as the number of expected audience members for PS division panels.
f. It was suggested that Baglia contact Jay Allison and Kelly Taylor at North Texas for performances.
g. It was suggested that Baglia contact Lynn Miller and Joni Jones at UT and ask them to bring grad students to Dallas.
h. It was suggested that Jill Dolan at UT be considered for a "spotlight" panel.
i. Mindy Fenske will attend the nominating committee.
D. Election of Vice-Chair Elect
1. Tracy Stephenson nominated by Mindy Fenske, seconded by Michael Levan; unanimously approved.
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Political Communication Division
Southern States Communication Association
Minutes from the Division Business Meeting
31 March 2005
Baton Rouge, LA
At approximately 4:03 pm on 31 March 2005 the Business Meeting of the Political Communication Division was called to order by Division Chair, Robert E. (Bob) Frank.
In attendance were:
Monette Callaway-Ezell
Norma Cook
Jean DeHart
Tony DeMars
Bob Denton
Bill Edwards
John Foster
Bob Frank
Rachel Holloway
Paula Rodriguez
Craig Allen Smith
Pete Smith
Beth Waggenspack
Patrick Wheaton
The minutes of the Business Meeting held last April in Tampa, and which had been circulated via e-mail, were presented by Monette Callaway-Ezell and approved by a voice vote of the Division.
Tony DeMars made the Vice-Chair's report noting that for the 2005 Convention approximately 20 papers were submitted, of which 8 were accepted and divided between two panels. Additionally 6 of 10 panel proposals were accepted, giving the Division a total of 8 panels at the 2005 convention. The top paper award will be presented to Christopher Darr for his paper titled, "Assessing United States Senate Debate: (In)Civility and the Unborn Victims of Violence Act." Jean DeHart will present the award on Saturday, April 2, 2005 at the panel.
Elections for 2005-2006 officers were held. The following individuals were elected:
Vice-Chair Elect: Monette Callaway-Ezell
Secretary: Pete Smith
Nominating Committee Representative: Paula Rodriguez
Craig Allen Smith was congratulated for his election as SSCA Vice-President-Elect and was praised for his role in encouraging the founding and development of the Political Communication Division (which achieved Division status at the 2004 SSCA Convention in Tampa, FL).
Bob Frank presented the Chair's report on the SSCA Executive Council meetings. It was noted that SSCA would be in Dallas in 2006, Louisville in 2007, Savannah in 2008, and that Virginia Beach was under consideration for 2009. There was also some discussion of holding a joint conference with Eastern Communication Association in 2010, possibly in San Antonio.
The Chair's report was interrupted by a visit from J. Emmett Winn and Ken Cisna, the new Executive Director and President of SSCA respectively. They offered their congratulations on the group's attainment of Division status.
Bob Frank then continued with the Chair's report noting that as a division we have money to spend. He also noted that we currently have 61 members and noted that the SSCA Office was in the process of correcting the member application/renewal form to list Political Communication as a Division rather than as an Interest Group. Bob also noted that the Executive Council recommended that the Executive Director negotiate with EBSCOHost for inclusion of the journal on-line. The consensus was for full text to be made available with a 12-month delay/embargo. There was also an approval by the majority for publication of the journal to be turned over to Taylor & Francis
Bob Frank then opened the meeting up to discussion. One issue of discussion was whether we should hold a joint convention with Eastern in 2010. It was noted that SSCA had become too big for the hotels used for past conventions but that we were not big enough for other hotels. Therefore a joint convention maybe a good idea. It was noted that there are approximately 1000 NCA members in the South, but that many do not belong to SSCA. Overall, there was no general sentiment in favor of a joint convention.
Ideas for possible panels at the 2006 Convention were briefly discussed. These included panels on mid-term elections, and the balance of powers related to the Terry Shiavo case.
On a motion by Bill Edwards, the Political Communication Division voted to adjourn at 4:34pm.
Submitted by:
Patrick G. Wheaton
Secretary 2004-2005
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Minutes Popular Communication Division
Annual Meeting @SSCA 2005, Baton Rouge , LA
Saturday April 2, 2005
The meeting was called to order by Debbie Phillips at 5:20 PM with 6 members in attendance: Debbie Phillips, Wendy Hajjar, Wesley Buerkle, Stephen King, David Silverman, and Houjing Tu.
Presiding Chair Richard Olsen could not attend. The minutes from last year were approved unanimously. Information from the Business meeting was conveyed regarding the defeat of the joint conference with Central States in 09, and the discussion of the changes in publishing journals and newsletters. According to member and President –Elect J. Emmett Winn, our membership is in good shape although exact numbers were not available.
Vice Chair Debbie Phillips presented the Planning Report. For the Baton Rouge conference, 22 papers and 5 abstracts were reviewed by at least 2 reviewers each. 5 panels were assembled according to rankings.
Discussion ensued over the workshop sessions in more popular times and what ideas we could generate for 2006 in Dallas. Some workshop ideas were advanced as well as a plan to reach out to other divisions for joint panel proposals.
The committee held elections for Secretary, Vice Chair Elect and Nominating Committee members. For the 2006 meeting, Wesley Buerkle will serve as division Secretary, David Silverman as Vice Chair Elect will plan the 2007 division conference in Louisville, KY, and Richard Olsen was elected in absentia to serve on the Nominating Committee.
Finally, top student and faculty paper awards were given to Haijing Tu of Auburn University and David Silverman of Xavier University, respectively. Photographs were taken of the presentation of awards.
The meeting adjourned at 6:15.
For the committee, Wendy J. Hajjar, University of New Orleans, Vice Chair Elect.
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Rhetoric and Public Address
Minutes of April 2, 2005
"Desperate Rhetoricians"
I had missed last year's seance and was worried. Would I still grasp what was going on? Had the format changed? Did we have officers? Was I still secretary? Were we still a Division? Would anyone show up? These and other equally pressing questions vexed me as I moved towards the "Samuel Clements" room at 7:45 a.m. But alas, I worried for naught, for like that prime-time soap of relational intrigue, "Desperate Housewives," our Division is a prime-time study in rhetorical intrigue. And because both forms are equally routinized and predictable, it only took me two minutes to catch up.
Actually, I started catching up before I even got to the meeting. As I skulked through the lobby, I heard this booming voice threaten, "I've got an off the wall suggestion." It could only be Ron Carpenter, who, lest we forget, had become rather infamous for his suggestions regarding next year's themes. "Oh?" I came back innocently. "Yep, I've really thought this one through." This could be a problem, I thought, but only smiled benignly.
As you all know, it's important for me to have a feel for the emotional climate of these meetings, and I was struggling early on here. I just couldn't nail the color of the room.
"So what do you think, tan?" I ask the 10 sleepy attendants (more kept drifting in until we had 16 by 8:36 a.m.).
"It's ochre," booms a voice from the rear. I spin back and see a confident Jim Darsey nodding in self-approval.
"That's either a killer whale or some mythic demon," I shoot back, not wanting to be one-upped this early in the festivities.
"It's spelled o-c-h-r-e, you idiot, and it's a subtle brown tone, neither a swimming mammal nor a troll under a bridge."
I just looked at Darsey. Typically, guys—especially rhetoricians—have a five color spectrum—black, red, blue, yellow, and white. Being pretty femmed out myself, I had more choices. I had beige, cinnamon, and taupe in my brown category, but not this ochre thing. This was very impressive.
There was something else about Darsey that I just couldn't quite put my finger on. Then it all clicked. Of course! Rob Hobbs, The Natural. If Jim didn't get shot for proclaiming to be "the best there ever was" to some crazy woman in a hotel room, he'd be our next Vice-President elect. You heard it here first—and I have a preternatural sense of these things. You can never deny a rhetorician with "ochre" in his or her lexicon.
Okay, back to the meeting. Stepping in for President Kathleen Farrell, Vice President Roseann Mandziuk addressed us with a cheerful competence unheard of at 8:13 a.m. She reviewed what we already knew—that the SSCA newsletter was coming back, that there would be no joints in 2010 (let me rephrase that; there would be no joint convention in 2010—much better), that the ex-rock group, Taylor and Frances, would be printing our journal, and that some guy named "EPSCO" had hacked into our files with such skill that we decided to hire him.
Then, addressing us as herself instead of as somebody else, Roseann groused a bit about submissions being down, but then got things upbeat again with the radical suggestion that we all head over to the Capital and see "Robo-Huey" (Okay--I realize this is a slightly cryptic reference, but if you'd have heard Josh Gunn's paper the day before, you would know what I was talking about here, and would feel very empowered).
Here's where Vice-President Elect, Jim Kuypers, rose to address us. Wow—this dude was incredible! The image was a careful blend of empathic conservatism, but there was something else, something a bit beneath the surface that took me a bit to fathom. Ambition! Yes, of course. That's it. What cued me was that Jim had already done all of the planning for next year's convention. He didn't really need us, and, since most rhetoricians aren't really into being needed all that much anyway, this promised to be a match made in heaven.
But Jim is smart. Even though he didn't need us, he didn't act like he didn't need us, and asked whether we had any theme suggestions for next year. Now I must confess that I short-circuited here, but I vaguely remember something about the Kennedy assassination site, having Ray McKerrow in to see if he could remember what "Critical Rhetoric" was, and then Ron Carpenter's "on the wall" suggestion that we do something with Bush's second inaugural.
Now I'm sure he'll insist the minutes be corrected here, but it was now time for Ron's other suggestion, the "off the wall" one. It was something like, "Let's get 10 rhetoricians together and see if any of them can spell ‘Texas.'" I know it was a bit more than that, but the specifics plumb eluded me. I do remember, though, that most everybody began reading materials they did not have in front of them when Ron offered this beauty.
Time for the Divisional elections. Wait. Check that. Now I don't know if anyone from other Divisions is reading this, but if you are, listen up. Here's how you can greatly cut down on your meeting time. You see, in Rhetoric & Public Address, we no longer have elections. We've found them to be hard, time-consuming, contentious, and to require some counting. And so we've abandoned them. In their place, somebody says something like, "I've talked to so-and-so. And although s/he cannot be with us today, s/he would see being Vice-President-elect as the capstone to an already sterling career." Immediately, someone says, "I move nominations to be closed." A quick second, and then an even quicker, "I move we elect be acclamation," which we always do. This year we did this to Ken Zagacki.
Rather than elect someone to the NCA Nominating Committee (a thankless task, to be sure), Roseann, with perhaps just a touch of irritation for having to do both her own report and that of Kathleen Farrell, suggested that the outgoing Division President, and we all know who that would be, right? should automatically serve on the Nominating Committee. Beautiful!
"So who would like to serve on the Committee on Committees?" came Roseann's next query. "Don't all volunteer at once." And nobody did. After what seemed like an interminable period, Bill Harpine eased the tension and made the ultimate sacrifice for all of us.
Not much happened after that. Technically, we had "New Business" I guess, but, as so often happens when we're wearing down, all thoughts, feelings, and ideas evaporated about as quickly as they were formed.
We adjourned at 8:46 a.m. I watched as Roy Hob—Jim Darsey talked intensely with a few friends on his way out. "He's next," I thought. "This is a no-brainer." Well—we'll all just have to wait and see about that—because strange things have been known to happen in Texas, right?
Respectfully submitted,
Thomas Frentz, Secretary in Perpetuity